🎙️ Episode 4: Life Unfolds - and So Do We

A conversation with Julie Pesesse

Julie Pesesse is a coach — but for me, she has been much more than that.

Over the past ten years, she’s become a trusted guide, someone who has profoundly shaped the way I think, work, and show up in the world. Our journey together began after I won a scientific prize at a conference. The award came with a personal development budget, and I was determined to use it wisely.

Like many, I first considered some of the polished communication trainings on offer — and I ended up doing quite a few of them. Some were insightful, others… a bit too expensive for what they offered. But I also made one of the best decisions of my professional life: I chose to invest a significant part of that budget in a long-term coaching trajectory with Julie.

And I’ve never looked back.

Julie helped me not only to communicate more clearly, but to live and work with greater intention. She taught me how to prepare for difficult conversations, how to sense the energy in a room, and how to lead with both clarity and care. Over time, our work evolved — from practical skill-building to deeper reflection. We explored what it means to change, what it takes to grow, and how to stay connected to your core, even in the most challenging moments.

Julie doesn’t typically introduce herself with job titles or credentials.

When asked to share who she is, she speaks first about her values. A deep love for people — not only those who are easy to love, but for all human beings. A passion for interaction — for the ways we relate to one another, to ourselves, and to the world around us. And a reverence for all that is alive.

The term agent of change didn’t immediately resonate with Julie when she first heard it. Not because she didn’t recognise herself in the work — but because the language felt too grand, too heavy. Agent implies responsibility, a role to play, and that part made sense to her. But change, in her words, is simply life itself. Constant, inevitable, always moving.

Julie doesn’t see herself as someone who makes change happen. Rather, she sees herself as an ally — someone who walks alongside others as they move through what is already unfolding. Her role is not to push or to fix, but to support. To help people notice the movement that’s already there, and to trust their own capacity to grow with it.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Why intention matters more than we think

• How change unfolds in four intuitive phases

• The power of self-insight — and how even a single label, if well-placed, can shift the way we see ourselves

• And what it means to trust the unfolding of life

The Power of Intention

In the early years of our work together, Julie helped me sharpen my communication — not just the words I used, but the presence I brought into every interaction.

I vividly remember how she guided me through preparing meetings with deep intentionality. What do I want to say? What do I want to embody? Who is in the room, and what might they need from me? These weren’t just practical tips — they were mindset shifts. They taught me that every encounter can be an intervention, if it’s approached with clarity and care.

One theme that kept coming back in our coaching was intention. Julie would often ask, “What do you want to happen?” or “What do you hope others will leave with?” 

Questions that sound simple — but often aren’t.

At first, I found it surprisingly hard to name my intention clearly. I knew something wasn’t working, or that I needed support — but I didn’t always have the words for it. Julie explained that this is completely normal, and that people have different ways of discovering their needs.

Some of us are natural self-reflectors. We can go for a walk, journal, or sit in silence — and things become clear. Others, like me, often need a conversation. We discover our thoughts while speaking, in interaction. It’s through the dialogue — through the mirror of another person — that our real questions and desires begin to surface.

Julie even shared a small everyday example: how do you decide what to eat for dinner? Some people just know what they want. Others need to talk through the options. That same dynamic often applies to deeper decisions as well.

T

oday, there are also digital tools that can help you prepare. Even something like ChatGPT can support people in clarifying what they want to explore in a coaching conversation, by helping formulate their thoughts. But, as Julie pointed out, no tool can replace the depth of human connection. A good coach won’t just give you answers — they’ll help you ask the right questions.

And in coaching, that starts with intention.

Without clarity on what someone wants from a conversation or a journey, it becomes just a talk — not a transformation.

Understanding Change: A Simple, Powerful Model

One of the most helpful frameworks Julie ever shared with me was about the natural rhythm of change. She described it in four phases:

1. No talk, no action – The status quo. Everything seems fine, but it’s not growing. There’s no awareness of the need for change.

2. Talk, no action – Awareness begins. People start voicing concerns or dreams, but no behavior shifts yet.

3. Talk and action – The experimental phase. People test new ways, stumble, learn. It’s messy — but vital.

4. Action, no talk – The new behavior becomes natural. It no longer needs justification. Change has integrated.

   
   

While Julie presented this as an intuitive observation, it closely aligns with the Transtheoretical Model of Change developed by Prochaska and DiClemente in the 1980s. Originally rooted in health psychology and behavior change research, particularly in the context of addiction, the model has since been widely applied in coaching and change management.

Understanding this helped me recognize that stagnation is often just a phase. That frustration and confusion can be signs of growth. And that sometimes, the most important thing we can do is to stay with the process, rather than rush through it.

NLP and the Logical Levels of Change

At a certain point in our work, we began exploring deeper layers of transformation. One framework that left a lasting impact on me was drawn from Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP).

NLP is a communication and personal development approach that focuses on the connection between how we think, speak, and behave. Rather than asking why people act a certain way, NLP asks how change happens — and how patterns can be shifted.

One powerful tool from NLP is the Logical Levels of Change. It suggests that real transformation doesn’t just happen on the surface.

It touches different levels of our experience. Connected to the situation ‘As if’ going into the exploration off:

• Environment – What does the environment look like?

• Behavior – What do I see myself doing in that environment?

• Skills – Doing what I am doing, what am I capable of?

• Beliefs and Values – Being capable of… what matters most to me?

• Identity – Knowing what matters to me most, what kind of person am I?

• Systemic purpose – Being who I am, what larger whole am I connected to?

Julie explained the model using a simple but powerful example: someone who is struggling to pass their driving exam. At first glance, this seems like a practical issue — a matter of learning the right behaviors. But if they’ve already tried several times without success, it may signal something deeper. Perhaps they have the right skills, but doubt their beliefs about their own abilities. Or maybe they question whether driving even fits with their identity, or whether it aligns with their broader purpose. When these deeper levels aren’t aligned, real change becomes much harder.

We arrived at the Logical Levels of Change during a period in my career when I was feeling lost. I was asking myself some hard questions: What is my mission in life? What am I actually doing at work? Why am I doing it? I felt my motivation slipping, and I wasn’t sure if I should stay in my current job or look for something entirely different. I was searching for purpose.

Julie suggested we try an NLP-based exercise to explore these questions more deeply. In my case, the exercise helped me see that my struggle wasn’t about productivity or behavior. It was about meaning. I was living in a gap between what I was doing and what I actually wanted to contribute to the world. 

That exercise took place about 18 months ago — and since then, something fundamental has shifted. I live my life with a much stronger connection to my intrinsic motivation and personal mission. The fog I once felt around “why am I doing this?” has cleared in a way that’s hard to put into words.

And honestly, I still find it incredible. That something so simple — a structured conversation, guided by the right person — could have such a profound impact.

The Logical Level of Change exercise is one of those things you really have to experience to understand. The clarity, the alignment, the quiet confidence it brings… it’s not something you can explain fully with logic. It’s something you feel.

Identifying Your Talent

At one point, I asked Julie how she came to understand her own talents and what shapes her distinctive way of coaching. She pointed to her experience with the CliftonStrengths assessment, developed by the American company Gallup. This model is designed to identify people’s natural patterns of thinking, feeling, and behaving.

Rather than concentrating on shortcomings, the CliftonStrengths approach starts from the idea that growth happens fastest when people build on what already comes naturally to them. The assessment highlights a set of dominant talent themes, which are seen as the building blocks of potential strengths.

Julie’s top talent is something she describes as “making the invisible visible.” That phrase is her own, not official CliftonStrengths terminology, but it captures the essence of her ability. She notices subtle signals others might miss and gives language to thoughts, emotions, or dynamics that are still taking shape. I have experienced this repeatedly in our work together. More than once, Julie articulated what I was struggling with before I was able to name it myself.

This is also what makes her coaching so impactful. She does not only listen to what is being said, but also to what is present just beneath the surface.

From Uncertainty to Calling

Julie didn’t set out to become a coach. Her journey began from a deep personal search — a moment in her life when things felt uncertain. After successfully working as a freelancer with several companies, she felt she had reached an invisible ceiling. The path forward was unclear. What was next? What did she really want to do with her life?

Initially, she planned to take a three-month sabbatical. But even after eight or nine months, she still didn’t have clear answers. She struggled to put her calling into words. All she felt was: “The only thing I have to offer is energy.”

At that point, she came across a training programme that deeply resonated — but to apply, she first had to complete a personal exercise: creating a visual strip story that illustrated the kind of work she wanted to do, and the role she wished to take on in the world. And not only was she accepted into the training, but something unexpected happened on day one.

She met the woman leading the session and felt an instant click. By the end of the day, Julie walked up to her and simply asked: “What is your job?” “I’m a coach,” the woman replied.

And something clicked.That was it. That was the path.

Today, Julie still works with the same energy and conviction — but her view on coaching, and on life, has matured.

In the early years, she says, she was more idealistic. Like many of us, she believed that coaching tools could fix the world. That if people just communicated better, or had the right insight at the right time, we could end all conflict.

But with experience came a different kind of wisdom.

Real change doesn’t start in the world around us — it starts within us.She speaks about the “war within ourselves” — the inner conflict we all carry, and how that unresolved tension often leaks into the world.If we want to see more peace, more clarity, more compassion “out there,” we have to cultivate it in ourselves first.

And that begins with love. Love for the people around us. Love for what is alive. Love for ourselves — not as a performance or an ego boost, but as a quiet, radical act of care.

Julie states: “Life unfolds. It doesn’t need anyone to unfold — the question is, am I blocking it, or am I supporting it?”

That’s the essence of how she works.

She doesn’t try to control or “fix” people. 

She trusts in their unfolding. 

And she sees it as her privilege to witness the beauty, the strength, and the growth that emerge when people feel safe enough to truly be themselves.

Be Happy

One of the final reflections Julie offered during our conversation was something I needed to hear:“Be happy.”

It sounds simple.

But coming from her — after ten years of work, questions, and shared learning — it meant more than just pleasure.

It meant: Do more of what gives you joy.

Trust that joy is part of the path.

Let happiness guide the way, not just achievement or impact.

It reminded me that change, at its core, isn’t always about fixing. Sometimes it’s about unfolding. Letting what’s within us come to life — with courage, with care, and with companionship.

Want to Learn More?

📌 Visit Julie’s website: https://www.pesesse-coaching.com/

📚 Learn more about NLP: Podcast ‘NLP in het dagelijkse leven’ (Nederlands) (link): interesting website/resource (French): www.interactif.be

📈 Explore the Gallup CliftonStrengths assessment

📖 Read about the Transtheoretical Model of Change (Prochaska and Diclemente): Prochaska, J. O., Norcross, J. C., & DiClemente, C. C. (1994). Changing for Good. New York: William Morrow.

🎧 And of course — listen to the full episode on The World of Liesbet 👉 Here

If this conversation moved something in you, I’d love to hear from you.

And if you’re on a journey of change — welcome.

 You’re not alone.